A new male acquaintance asked me if I might be interested in joining him and his wife for an evening of D/s and I said yes. The night went well but afterwards I was left with a feeling of being unsettled and realized that a strong racial nerve was just struck; I have a hard time seeing an Asian woman being dominated by a white male (particularly when it is done with questionable consent).
Images of my pinay sisters as mail order brides subjugated by white male foreigners came to mind and a feeling of anger started to rise (I can eroticize many taboos but this one remains a "don't even go there").
Must be my roots talking.
.
Images of my pinay sisters as mail order brides subjugated by white male foreigners came to mind and a feeling of anger started to rise (I can eroticize many taboos but this one remains a "don't even go there").
Must be my roots talking.
.
posted by:
|
SF Bay Area
|
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Sun, October 9, 2005 - 2:45 AMRoots are wise. They keep us grounded and focused. -
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Wed, October 12, 2005 - 3:31 PMWow. Actually, I went to my cousin's wedding and same thing......Scary really.
-
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Mon, October 10, 2005 - 1:39 PM
I think for each of us there are some things that just cannot be reclaimed, re-framed, or made hot. And that is ok. Or it may be that you are not ready to reclaim it *now*, but 5 years from now, you will feel differently. And that is ok too.
For me the hardest thing about remembering this ok-ness is public parties. How can we keep them safe for someone who wants to do X, while keeping it safe for me to go to a public space and not see X? So far I have gone with the theory that the person who is bothered can leave the area where it is happening. But this works better for some kinds of things than for others. It sounds like, in your case, even seeing a few moments of your X would have unsettled you. It's a tough problem.
Are you able to get for yourself some extra aftercare? Maybe not from the people you played with even, but someone else? Just a thought.
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Wed, October 12, 2005 - 6:41 PMI guess I have a related issue.
My family is jewish, and I have a very hard time excepting, or finding it attractive when I see nazi parifinalia or uniforms used in BDSM fetish wear.
-
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Sat, October 15, 2005 - 11:37 AMI'm half Jewish and I totally know what you mean. Though in the end of course we all have to respect each others kinks as long as there's consent.
I've had kind of the opposite thing where I've always been more attracted to women of color and I've felt guilty because of that, like my preference made me a racist or something.
-
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Thu, October 13, 2005 - 8:05 AMI think we all have what I like to refer to as "landmines." Landmines are those things that we were never consciously aware would strike a nerve. We (and I am using the royal We) do the same thing we always do, but that one time there is some minor thing that is subtly different. That minor thing wakes up some hidden emotion that results in a negative reaction. The key is that once we recognize it, we need to own it. Realize that it is part of who we are and during the negotiation process make it clear that we will under no circumstances permit that act or situation. -
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Sat, October 15, 2005 - 2:31 PMYes, Kaya... listen to your roots...
I have stated this before, but I am disturbed when I see the white male Dom topping a man or woman of color. I have to pause and remember that these are adults and this is consensual. Nonetheless, I have an initial flare of anger when I see this.
I have this interesting issue around this right now. Many of my friends are white and they accuse me of being an Asiaphile. How can that be if I am Asian? So, I've been taken to task to justify my attraction to Asian women. Of course, there is the Freudian stuff about being reminded of mothers or whatnot, but beyond that, I know that there is another layer.
For me, Asian women tend to have been raised with Confucian ethics. Yes, even Filipinas (though people deny this). I have come to associate feelings of home, peace and harmony with Asian women. Having these unspoken values in common have made me strongly attracted to Asian women. Of course, not all Asian women have this (for one reason or another) and I also know that people of other ethnic backgrounds have these ethics and values (but not many, just to be real with you). I am not hung up on my attraction to Asian women, but it is strong.
Its disturbing to see our Asian sisters submitting to Dominant white men because its not done only in play. Its our reality. This is how our white dominated, JudeoChristian Society is structured. -and I have said it before in this tribe: Being Jewish in and of itself does not mean you are not white. Ashkenazis are European and enjoy the priviliges of being such in our society. Just to be clear.
-
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Sun, October 16, 2005 - 2:42 AMI am attracted to women of all races. Women of color attract me, in part, because they seem exotic. Most of my partners have been like me, white, but a few have been of mixed descent- half white, half black/thai/whatever.
It never occured to me that I was being racist by being a Dominant with these partners.
From reading the posts in this thread, I see that some find my partnering with women other than white, distasteful, racist, and wrong.
I must admit to some confusion about this.
In my earlier post about nazi fetish wear, I stated how it made me feel..ie..uncomfortable. And while I feel it would be innapropriate for me, or my partner, to wear such uniforms, I do not look at others wearing these outfits and think that they should not be doing that. It is their kink, and whatever gets them off is fine with me, I just would not likely be interested in them. Their kink is not my kink.
I am not sure how to ask this question without creating a ruckus, but, I would like to read some discussion.....
Is it ever ok, with the members of this Tribe, for a white Dominant/Master to have a submissive/slave of color? Does the gender of the Dominant matter in this equasion? IE..a black Dominant female with a white male submissive. Is it ok one way and not the other? Why?
Should I, as a white male Dominant, refrain from partnering with a submissive woman of color, simply because it might touch a nerve with others from that particular racial segment of the community?
-
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Sun, October 16, 2005 - 8:34 AMBernied,
I totally agree with you on this. Though I'm coming from a different place because I'm a submissive and nobody really has a problem with white guys being beat-up by black women. But I think this is an interesting and important discussion.
steve -
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Sun, October 16, 2005 - 10:11 AMIs it ever ok for a white Dom male to top a person of color?
Yes.
As long as it is consensual.
Will I still have my feelings
of animosity and discord about it.
Yes.
That's my perogitive.
You aren't going to please everyone all the time
but I must admit that when I see this
it reinforces feeling I've had about racial relations
(I always hear Minister Farrakhan saying
"What did I tell you?" in my head).
But I have his voice in my head
every time I see a mail order bride
every time a woman of color overlooks
men of color in preference to a foot in
to the world of white privilige
And I hear it when thousands of people die
due to our governments hesitancy and neglect
in times of disaster and crisis.
So what.
I know my opinion doesn't matter anyways.
What is my inner turmoil
compared to your pleasure?
-
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Sun, October 16, 2005 - 11:04 AMNo disrespect but I think there are bigger things being talked about than "my inner turmoil compared to your pleasure". There's so many levels to this discussion but one of them is sexual freedom. I know (or at least hope) that we're all against the Bush agenda of denying people sexual freedom because it makes Christian fundamentalists uncomfortable. I think it's important that we encourage sexual openness and an open dialogue on the topic. Your feelings are really important.
The only point I wanted to make is that there is a political element to this discussion which transcends one person's pleasure. I don't think this discussion is about one person's pleasure versus your turmoil but rather how much we can accept from each other and where we put up walls to that acceptance, if those walls are OK or not, and how we should react to those deep emotions that can be stirred by others sexual preferences. -
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Sun, October 16, 2005 - 11:29 AMEverything we do in the BDSM lifestyle offends a segment of the population.
I am NOT one to deny anyones sexual pleasure, as long as it is consensual. I made top mention of that. I hold that as a major principle in my life. In fact, I've been an active advocate for this for quite a few years now.
Dispite your invalidating statement, Stephen
we are talking about pleasure here.
Ultimately, pleasure is political.
(if you buy into what many French postmodernists are teaching)
I am not into using "We" statements.
I am using "I" statements intentionally.
I don't try to represent anyone else but myself.
This isn't that I am being self-centered.
This is that I know that I cannot speak for others
esp. if I have not been given the authority to do so.
-
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Sun, October 16, 2005 - 3:24 PMI come from a rather matriarchal Filipina family, hence the thought of a female relative being subservient to a white male whom she may see as exotic (ie. different than her own), for me, just does not compute. This is not to say that I will *never find myself in a submissive role with a caucasian man, only that a strong adversion arises when I isolate the racial context given my people's political and cultural history along with the associations that I make to American and European males paying for domesticated female slaves who happen to look like me.
(I keep in mind too, that some of these women later turn out to in fact dominate the husband in many ways..)
For me, the defining factor of what makes the whitemaledom/asianfemalesub hot or not, seems to ultimately lie in the CONSENT between the 2 because if that is clearly in place, well hell, just about anything goes.
-
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Sun, October 16, 2005 - 5:42 PM"For me, the defining factor of what makes the whitemaledom/asianfemalesub hot or not, seems to ultimately lie in the CONSENT between the 2 because if that is clearly in place, well hell, just about anything goes. "
What was it about the evening you started this thread with that made you use the term "questionable conscent"?
-
-
Re: questionable consent
Mon, October 17, 2005 - 12:05 AMDiscretion is of the essence when it comes sharing the particulars of the evening. Call it a fancy. -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: questionable consent
Mon, October 17, 2005 - 1:49 AMtis more than mere fancy. Discretion equals respect. Thank you, Kaya.
My family is also matriarchal. The women of my family are all powerful characters. This is the kind of woman that I am attracted to. You might think this makes me a sub, but that isn't the case. I have bottomed on a few occasions and in special circumstances, but its not my typical thing.
This whole thing really boils down to respect. I'm not into putting women on a pedistal. The women of my life (family, friends and lovers) are already strong. No need for that nonsense. -
-
Re: questionable consent
Thu, November 3, 2005 - 4:25 PMI am a black submissive woman who has white male Doms. It is just what I like. Do I get hassled by black Doms with white female subs Yes. I can't take them seriously because for me it isn't about race and I see them as having double standards. I am a very strong woman. I 'Top' white men all week long all day. It's just they I always been. I was with a austrian Dom at an event. I was happy, consent and enjoying myself. This woman came up to up and was all in my face about "are you sure you want this.? etc" At the time I was a pony with a bit in my mouth. I really didn't want to come out just to make her feel better and tell her I was okay. He tired to explain to her about ponyplay but she insisted that I answer her. Finally just so she would leave me the fuck alone I looked her in the eye and nodded. If she had of just paid attention to my posture and the way I was acting instead of reading her own hangups onto me she wouldn't have been bothering me.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: White Male Dominant / Asian Female Submissive
Yesterday, 9:32 AMUltimately BDSM is about consensual pleasure between adults of sound mind, so it is patronising to treat people of colour differently, ie: assuming that if I dominate a black guy sexually it means I'm oppressing him. The logical extension of that is a dogma that states that people of colour should never be sexually submissive... which is ridiculous.
The Top always has a responsibility to ensure that his sub is giving him full, informed consent, otherwise there is the potential for abuse. This applies to subs of all races.
As I see it, there are two domains of respect here. On the one hand I respect the individual's right to express their sexual dominance or submission (or both), regardless of race. On the other hand, I also respect the sensibilities of other people. If I did have a black sub I wouldn't make an issue of his race to other people because I know how it would go down (and I dislike the term 'slave' anyway, regardless of race).
For the same reason, if people want to use Nazi paraphenalia in their private sex play it doesn't bother me, but I do think it is distasteful for them to wear it in public.
